Post by Rog on Jun 13, 2019 4:03:13 GMT
The way I did this was same as before. Took 10 people and myself, all put in lists. I tallied up their points totals from their votes(10 for 1st, 9 for 2nd, 8 for 3rd, 1 for 10th and everything in between) and then put them in reverse order. Here is the rankings:
T24. SG Bobby McDermott, Los Angeles Clippers - 1 point
T24. SG Richie Guerin, Miami Heat - 1 point
T24. SG Miki Berkovich, Toronto Raptors - 1 point
T24. C Bill Russell, Houston Rockets - 1 point
Not to take a cop out, however I'm going to do a few of these with little points, until we reach the top 14, together with some small talking points. Kicking off our list is a guy I don't even know if I'd rank in my top 10 shooting guards in the league, kidding of course, in the Clippers Bobby McDermott. McDermott got the vote that all of you know he got, without a doubt. McDermott is one of the league's premier shooters, currently doing 24 points, 6 rebounds, 3 assists and shooting 44% from three. Dudes a sniper. Tied here is another shooting guard in Miami Heat's Richie Guerin. I think Guerin deserved some consideration in the top 10, I mean look at those ratings. However a down scoring year combined with some questions about the Heat deterred most from putting him on their list. Also with only 1 vote, Toronto Raptors shooting guard Miki Berkovich deserved more love and was originally on my list, but took him off. He is probably my 11th or 12th best player in the league. Compare his stats to McDermott's this year and the talent the Raptors have, its clear he at least deserves to be in the conversation with McDermott and Guerin as top 5 shooting guards in the league. Anyone who does 27 points, 7 rebounds, 4 assists with the type of stocks he generates and percentages he shoots deserves consideration for a top 10 list. I almost don't want to mention the Rockets Bill Russell given he doesn't even deserve a vote here, but I'll talk about him if only to say fuck the Rockets for fucking him over. Thats all.
T20. C Goga Bitadze, Portland Trailblazers - 2 points
T20. PG Booboo McAdoo, Toronto Raptors - 2 points
T20. SF Djordje Pazin, New York Knicks - 2 points
T20. SF Elgin Baylor, Los Angeles Lakers - 2 points
I'm not a huge fan of putting speciality bigs on lists like this, hence my hate for the vote for Russell but Goga Bitadze has quickly proven he ain't that. I think Bitadze gets super underrated, compare his stats to bigs higher up on this list(including guys that I voted for) and its pretty freaking close. At 26 years old, averaging 20 points, 13 rebounds, 4 assists, over 4 stocks and shooting the ball good for a big of his nature, Goga has a chance to end up much, much higher on this list in a few years. Probably the most surprising vote on the list, and with 2 points total, is Raptors Booboo McAdoo. Lets say this right away, it was not the Raptors vote. Booboo has had a resurgence of sorts this year after 4 years somewhat wandering in the wilderness. His 23 points, 11 assists, 6 rebounds, 2 steals with the type of percentages we are seeing from him are out of this world and ultra important for the Raptors. I just don't think that he is a top 10 player, personally. I do think Djordje Pazin of the Knicks is super underrated and somewhat rotting on what should be a really good Knicks team. What he brings is a 25 point, 10 rebound game whose defense leaves a bit to be desired. If he did more stocks or the Knicks were better, I imagine he'd have been higher on the list. And one of the 3 or 4 hardest guys to leave off was Lakers Elgin Baylor. I'll be honest in saying I forgot about him given how quiet the GM can be, but his B+ defense, shooting 44.8% from the field, and lack of stocks makes me feel like being left just off the list is about right for him.
T16. PG Dick McGuire, Indiana Pacers - 3 points
T16. SF Jack Twyman, Vancouver Grizzlies - 3 points
T16. PG Panagiotis Giannakis, Washington Wizards - 3 points
T16. C Clyde Lovelette, Vancouver Grizzlies - 3 points
Another 4 players, another wildly different set of circumstances. Starting off our tied for 16th list is the Pacers Dick McGuire. I like McGuire, and think he is a bit underrated with the meta in the league, but that is largely due to the Pacers overrating him. McGuire's lack of steals is the biggest issue for me and the reason I left him off my list in comparison to other PGs. Next up is Grizzlies small forward Jack Twyman. Twyman is another guy on my original list before making revisions. Twyman's scoring and how efficiently he does it, all on a pretty good team, is the story with him. He is a 25 point, 7 rebound, 3 assist guy who shoots over 50% from the field and nearly 47% from three. His lack of defense is the biggest issue and consequently why I left him off my list, and I imagine why several did as well. The Wizard's have constantly found good production from the point guard spot since Cedi took over, but Panagiotis Giannakis has propelled that to near elite production the last couple of years. He is currently a 28 point, 9 rebound, 5 rebound offensive stud shooting somewhat mediocre percentages and not providing much on the other side of the ball. He absolutely is fantastic and the Wizards preference to lead the scoring from the point guard spot has long paid off, just not with a title so far. Clyde Lovette is the biggest what the fuck to come out of this list. Clyde is a guy who came into the league uber hyped, but has not really met that. And then you look at his stats and are somewhat blown away by the 21 point, 13 rebounds, 3 assists, 4 stocks type of player he became.
15. PG Ivo Daneu, Houston Rockets - 4 points
How you rank the Rocket's point guard Ivo Daneu will all depend on what school of thought you subscribe to. Do you want your point guard to be the lead scorer who you don't really care how many assists he gets, aka Wizards school of thought? Or do you want a ball dominant point guard whose most important job is to give you assists in the offense and scoring is a bonus? If you fall on the second part, then Ivo Daneu is potentially the most perfect point guard in the league. He currently is 4th in assists while only averaging only just over 2 turnovers. He can score when needed, averaging 22 points per game while shooting 43% from three and chugging the offense along. If he did these kind of numbers on a team that was actually contending or solidly in a playoff spot, he'd have gotten a lot more love because to say he is really good at what he does, is an understatement, similar to Milos Teodosic. Its hard to place him on a team that will struggle to get to 30 wins this season.
T13. PG Trae Young, New York Knicks - 10 points
Yet another Knicks player on a team that really should be doing better. Part of that isn't the GM's issue with all the injuries, but Trae Young has played his part. A guy like Young will help you in all the good he does. 25 points scoring while shooting probably the best percentages in the league. He is a great passer, averaging over 10 assists a games, top 10 in the league. He is a destructive defender, carrying an A+ defensive rating while averaging over 2 steals a game as well. But he can't rebound and that has hurt the Knicks. He also averages nearly 3 turnovers a game, a number that has pushed the Knicks toward the middle of the pack in terms of holding onto the ball. For all he does well, Young brings something that hurts his team. I feel the good far outweighs the bad, but his flaws exist and we have to talk about him if we're going to put him in a top 10 list and he gets multiple votes.
T13. C Kresimir Cosic, Orlando Magic - 10 points
Like Ivo Daneu above, there is a desire to rank a guy like Kresimir Cosic much higher than he is here. I toyed with him being in my own list, but he didn't end up in there. He is doing extraordinary things, currently averaging 26 points, 13 rebounds, 2 assists, 3 blocks, while not averaging a lot of turnovers either. He does suffer a bit from shooting so much, shooting only 44% from the field. He also plays on a team that once again will struggle to win 30 games. So those numbers are very much inflated. Cosic has proven in the past though that he is worth about 90% of this, and its possible he has gotten better enough to be here. But who knows.
12. SF George Yardley, Toronto Raptors - 12 points
Other than Arizin, figuring out what small forward I wanted to put in my list was the hardest thing possible. I settled on George Yardley over Oscar Schmidt and Elgin Baylor, and I stand by that. George Yardley is a top 10 scorer on the year, averages 9 rebounds and 3.5 assists, while getting 2.5 stocks averaging only 1.5 turnovers and has A+ defense. He honestly might be the perfect small forward, honestly. At 32 years old he has aged like fine wine, with amazing ratings, production, and on a team that is absolutely balling. I was super shocked to see how little love he got in these lists, if not for how good and how long Paul Arizin has been that good, I might say Yardley is the best small forward in the league.
11. C Bob Pettit, Denver Nuggets - 14 points
The Denver Nuggets have long shown a penchant for grabbing bigs and always having two near superstar bigs, and now is no different. Bob Pettit comes in, just missing the top 10 at number 11. Pettit's career numbers might put him as a top 10 player in the league for me, with 18 points, 13.5 rebounds, 4.2 stocks, all while shooting the ball as good as you can ask from a big in FBB. But he has stepped it up to over 20 points a game and nearly 5 stocks this year on a good Nuggets team. He has yet to get over the hump as far as championships, but that is the last thing he needs to cement an amazing legacy that might put him as one of the best bigs in the league's history.
10. SG Anfernee Simons, Boston Celtics - 15 points
I was somewhat surprised for the love that Boston Celtics shooting guard Anfernee Simons got in this, as he fits snugly inside the top 10. Then you look at the type of bulk numbers he does for the back to back defending champion Boston Celtics. So far this year he has aveaged 29 points, 6 rebounds, 4 assists and he has carried an 'A' defensive rating, though he doesn't do much defensively in the statistics. He has established himself as a top shooting guard in the league, one that has a future that will include him being enshrined, absolutely unanimously too, in the Hall of Fame. Two titles, the scoring he provides, and his awards. It'll be a slam dunk. And he is still only just 29 years old with 4 or 5 elite years in front of him.
9. SF Oscar Schmidt, Boston Celtics - 21 points
A near perfect player for several years, Oscar Schmidt has kept on chugging in Boston, winning two titles as one of the best players on that roster. He is a near 28 point, 10 rebound, 1.5 stock force of nature. The things that he doesn't do so well even to this day, are generate stocks, contribute as a playmaker, and he isn't an elite free throw shooter as a guy who shoots just under 80% from the line. Still good in those areas, just not great. He misses out on the top 8 because of the fact that he isn't a truly elite all around player. One of my favorite players in the league, I choose Yardley over him personally do to being an all around better player besides scoring, and he is currently scoring more points per game.
8. PG Oscar Robertson, Denver Nuggets - 28 points
Looking back, its insane how lucky the Denver Nuggets got when the Jazz took Wilt instead of Oscar 5 Robertson. Not that Wilt hasn't been amazing, but it was easy to see it then and its incredibly obvious now, a game changing, elite point guard will set your franchise up for years, while an elite big is just a cog in the machine. Oscar brings 27+ points, 9+ assists, nearly 7 rebounds to the table every night, and is a threat to at any point get a triple double. He has also shown promise as a defender averaging over 2 steals and a block every other game as well. He does need to bring his turnovers down to be truly elite, averaging over 2.5 a game right now, which is a problem that causes an area that needs to be addressed. Everything else, including his percentages which haven't been mentioned yet, are elite. And you can bet Oscar will end up top 3 or 4 in the next season or two.
7. PF Maurice Stokes, Vancouver Grizzlies - 29 points
The last big as we reach the top of the top on this list, Maurice Stokes comes in at number 7. Stokes was my highest big on my list and it should be easy to see why. He is averaging nearly 25 points, 15 rebounds, well over 5 stocks, 4 assists, right at 2 turnovers and shooting the ball at an absolutely elite level for a big in FBB. He has done this for 4 seasons now and I don't see him relenting anytime soon when he is only 27 years old right now. Unless he misses too many games moving forward, he has the All-League First Team PF spot accounted for in the next 5 years or so, having already won 2 of them in the last 2 years. Stokes will be a central piece for a title team really soon, especially if Afro continues to build this roster well.
6. SG Sergei Belov, Brooklyn Nets - 47 points
He is only 29, been in the league for 11 seasons, but it feels like Sergei Belov is 40 right about now, and part of the reason I think he ranks as low as he does, people forget about him. He showed in FIBA how good he still is, and his stats are still incredible, even if they are down a bit the last two seasons. He is still good for 25+ points, 7.5+ rebounds, 4+ assists, and elite defense that includes nearly a block a game that combines with his 'A' rating to show how good he is. What he has sacrificed in the last two years hasn't been efficiency though, he is still shooting a 47.5/87.5/45 type line that would make any shooting guard in the league jealous. The Nets grabbed him in a trade and then smartly built around him, and they have had 3 succesful seasons so far, but no title. And that is the one knock on Belov at this stage in his career, he has the stats and the awards and he will be an elite player for another 4 or 5 seasons at least, but he doesn't have a title. He needs that to try to claim best shooting guard ever. Feels like he'll get there, but we'll see.
5. PG Jerry West, Charlotte Hornets - 61 points, 1 first place vote
Tied with Oscar Robertson as the youngest player on the entire list, Jerry West has overshot every expectation set down for him since entering the league with the most hype possible. He has led the charge for most of the year(until Arizin arrived) for one of the best teams in the league. He has become, in only his second year in the league, a 30 point, 9 assist, 6 rebound, 2 steal force who only turns it over around 2 times a game and shoots 49/94/47 on the court. West steps into a gym and is instantly a threat to score the rock in your face. He might not win a lot of awards due to his lack of top end passing, but that is the only knock on his game at the moment. If this type of statline was being put down by a guy 5 or 6 years in the league, West would be top 2. But he is young and still needs to prove this is who he is long term, rather than starting hot and not ending up that way. Future is bright though, and you have to imagine that West will bring multiple titles home for the Hornets. Or he'll be traded next week. Who knows.
4. SF Paul Arizin, Charlotte Hornets - 61 points
Another candidate to be traded next week, Paul Arizin makes the Hornets now have 2 top 5 players in the league according to this list. Arizin has varied between 2 and 5 on my own list since I started, ending with him at number 3. Despite some down numbers due to the move, an injury mid game, and sharing the rock with a team full of scorers that makes up the best offensive team in the league(or 2nd depending on what stats you choose from, top 2 is clear though). He is still a 27 points, 9 rebound, 4 assist guy who provides elite defense(2.5 steals, A+ rating) and elite efficiency(2.2 turnovers a game, a slash line of 48.8/93.7/45.3). He led the Pacers to a title several years back, and is hoping to bring the third title to the Hornets and their GM. Of anyone on this list, Arizin seems the likely candidate to fall pretty quickly over the next 3 seasons, as he will be 33 next season.
3. PG Ray Lumpp, Golden State Warriors - 66 points
There was a time a couple seasons ago where it looked like Ray Lumpp as a top 3 or 4 point guard in the league was a bit tenuous and many wondered if his time as an elite player was coming to a close. He now is a legit MVP candidate once again, having won three of those bad boys in his career. He is also an eight time All-League nominee and a 10 time All-Star, so he has had one hell of a career. On the year though he is doing nearly 30 points, 10 assists, 6 rebounds, while shooting the ball incredibly and only averaging 2.4 turnovers a game. Guys like Lumpp age well too, so I could see him being elite for the remainder of his contract, which is incredible. Where does he go All-Time? With only 1 title but his awards and what is sure to be top end counting stats, one could make any number of arguments. Hall of Famer should be unanimous though.
2. PG Nico Mannion, Cleveland Cavaliers - 76 points
It won't happen, but the Most Valuable Player this year wasn't Cousy, isn't West or Lumpp or any of them. It really should be awarded to Nico Mannion. All he has done is come into a situation that threw Jalen Green(3.2 turnovers), John Havilcek(6th man), Jaimie Pradilla(who?), and Salah Meijri(no offense) and stabilized the whole thing into a team that should win 60+ games this year. He has an outside shot to shoot 50/90/50 on the year, but should end up above 50% from the field and three regardless. Thats not with average volume either, he is just second in the league in scoring with 32.9 points per game at time of writing. He has shot the 2nd most shots in the league and is somehow shooting 50.2% from the field. Incredible. He won't win MVP though because his assist to turnover ratio is good but no where near elite, which stupidly matters above all. Mannion is only 26, depending on how far Oscar Robertson and/or West rise up this list, there is a conceivable spot in the next year or two where he takes the top spot. Frankly, Cousy is incredible.
1. PG Bob Cousy, Boston Celtics - 109 points, 10 first place votes
It couldn't be any other person, could it? Bob Cousy came into the league with insane draft notes, utilized them to perfection, and has just barely matched the hype he created. He has easily become the best player in league history by winning 7 MVP trophys in a row, with the probability he wins number 8 in a row this season, in a down scoring year too. Down meaning "only" 30.6 points per game rather than 32+ He got better as a passer though, which is insanely scary given he has one of the best assists to turnover ratios you'll ever see in his career stats, but is now doing 11.3 assists on only 1.3 turnovers. Just crazy stuff. There isn't much more to say about a m an who has won back to back titles and 7 in a row MVPs. He has four titles, eight All-League Teams, been to ten All-Star games, and three playoff MVP's. He is the best player in league history, without a doubt in my mind at this point. Point me a better player, and I'll call you a liar because they don't exist.
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