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Post by Donny - Bucks on Jan 6, 2023 17:49:30 GMT
Also, just to add, I think it’s pretty clear that Olle’s 4 years with the Bucks were more eventful, more high-quality, and more productive for his overall career than his time in Charlotte and that’s not really even arguable, tbh.
He can go in as a coat of arms player, fine, but had he stayed in Charlotte his entire career… the case is tough.
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Post by hunt54 on Jan 6, 2023 17:49:48 GMT
Olle was considerably more relevant as a Buck than he was as a Bobcat and that’s where my biased vote came in, but I’m good with him going in as a coat of arms player 4 seasons of dominance as a key part of one of the strongest dynasties in league history pretty much trounces any tenure he had anywhere else imo "relevant" doesn't make him a better player there imo. He was just as statistically dominant as a bobcat, his team was just not as good. He was great as a wizard too! |
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Post by hunt54 on Jan 6, 2023 17:53:39 GMT
Also, just to add, I think it’s pretty clear that Olle’s 4 years with the Bucks were more eventful, more high-quality, and more productive for his overall career than his time in Charlotte and that’s not really even arguable, tbh. He can go in as a coat of arms player, fine, but had he stayed in Charlotte his entire career… the case is tough. according to his stats, was not more "productive" as a buck eventful and more high quality is a "nice" way to put was on a better team then. Who knows what would've happened, i don't think hypotheticals make great cases for voting? |
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Post by josephballin11 on Jan 6, 2023 17:56:10 GMT
Olle was considerably more relevant as a Buck than he was as a Bobcat and that’s where my biased vote came in, but I’m good with him going in as a coat of arms player 4 seasons of dominance as a key part of one of the strongest dynasties in league history pretty much trounces any tenure he had anywhere else imo "relevant" doesn't make him a better player there imo. He was just as statistically dominant as a bobcat, his team was just not as good. He was great as a wizard too! He doesn't get in the HOF if he doesn't play with the Bucks. Its that simple |
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Post by hunt54 on Jan 6, 2023 17:56:50 GMT
"relevant" doesn't make him a better player there imo. He was just as statistically dominant as a bobcat, his team was just not as good. He was great as a wizard too! He doesn't get in the HOF if he doesn't play with the Bucks. Its that simple why ? |
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Post by hunt54 on Jan 6, 2023 18:01:25 GMT
Hello I would like to thank Donny for putting Olle up as a HOF candidate. Typically I think donny does a great job but I think he shows his bias here. Before I get into my vote for him as coat of arms, I would like to look at what I think is false or at the least not as true as donny claims it to be.
“Olle was significantly stronger all the way throughout when it came to him as a team's #2 and never really found a way to have success as the #1. Considering he was on some nearly $200M rosters in Charlotte and still never found a way to get it done until he left and had a star ahead of him, that may be cause for caution to some…”
First of all, I would argue that Olle did not play long enough as a buck to earn a HOF career off that alone. Lets look at how long he played as a buck, Olle never played a full 82 games as a buck and one of his seasons only played a mere 43 games. Is 3 and a half years enough to solidify anyone as a HOF for that team alone? Olle played 54 percent of his games as a bobcat and only 29 percent as a buck. Before I get into the stats, Olle was All-league twice as a bobcat and 0 times as a buck. That was during the runs of Guerrero, gervin and others.
Second I would not consider Olle significantly stronger as a buck than a bobcat. Olle scored 56 percent of his points as a bobcat and only 29 percent as a buck. Well he only played 4 years as a buck so lets equate that to a per year basis. 9.33 percent of his points a year as a bobcat only 7.2 percent of his points a year as a buck. He averaged more ppg as a bobcat than a buck which is impressive considering he was mostly a rookie and spent 6 years compared to 4. Also here is a list of career highs per game that Olle earned as a bobcat : Points per game, steals per game, rebounds per game, blocks per game. Those are pretty important for a sg no? Stronger as a buck? No way he had a different role as a buck and i’ll get into that later.
Third, the bobcats not having “success” and having multiple near $200 mil teams during olle’s tenure is absolute bullshit donny nonsense.
Here is a breakdown of the average salary of the bobcats team salary when Olle was on it.
As a bobcat Olle’s team averaged a cap roll of $147,799,435. Outside of his rookie year(only 24 wins) his team averaged 50.8 wins a season and made the playoffs every year. Is 51 wins and making the playoffs not a success for 5 out of his 6 seasons? What about the averages of cap as a buck? Lets look! $160,952,074, over 150 each one of those years but no mention of this in the write up! Yes I had one year that was close to 200m but i did not “abuse” it year after year as donny writes. Averaging 50 wins for 5 season stretch is success. Being 1 of three teams during that tenure to make the playoffs all 5 of those years is success. Now I will talk about Olle’s time as a buck.
Olle as a buck was a role change and joined probably the greatest run we have seen in a while. I have no problem saying that. Did he become significantly stronger? No. Did his team have more success yes. Olle became slightly more efficient but not significantly so, also since he averaged 66 games is it as strong of a number? Looking at his bests as a bobcat and a buck. His fg percent only improved .2 percent (throwing out the 43 gp season). His 3p percentage only improved .9 percent. This was most likely due to olle being a second compared to first option.
Olle is a HOF player in my eyes and while he was great as a buck I would argue he was at least as great as a bobcat, if not better. Either way I think he should be coat of arms vote. He might have earned more individual awards as a bobcat but he was also apart of one of the greatest runs in nbn history. You can't tell his story without either imo. If you still vote for him as a buck thats fine but either way I am tired of donny dogging me for the $200 mill bullshit. I think he clearly wrote with bias here and thats fine but im tired of the $200 mil shit. Lets look at his statement one last time sentence by sentence.
“Olle was significantly stronger all the way throughout when it came to him as a team's #2 and never really found a way to have success as the #1.
He was not significantly stronger and had plenty of success as the #1 man as a bobcat.
Considering he was on some nearly $200M rosters in Charlotte and still never found a way to get it done until he left and had a star ahead of him, that may be cause for caution to some…”
The bucks averaged more salary per year and the bobcats had plenty of success. Also why not mention comparisons to the pistons?
If you made it to this point you either 1. Love nbn or 2. Skimmed this entire thing. I understand that donny and I “feuding” is annoying but I only respond in defense. If he were to stop taking shots at me and my players. I have no problem with him. Hope everyone has a great day!
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Post by josephballin11 on Jan 6, 2023 18:01:49 GMT
He doesn't get in the HOF if he doesn't play with the Bucks. Its that simple why ? Shooting for the first ignore. Impressive. Stop being a moron, the guy with no rings and 2 3rd teams and 2 all stars isn't making the HOF without rings. |
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Post by Donny - Bucks on Jan 6, 2023 18:03:33 GMT
Shooting for the first ignore. Impressive. Stop being a moron, the guy with no rings and 2 3rd teams and 2 all stars isn't making the HOF without rings. Not to mention, his stats flourished once he left. Look at the 3-point shooting. As I mentioned before, and I really thought it may detract, I don’t think his case was that solid as a #1 because of the sheer lack of success there. Much better as a #2, sidekick type player. |
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Post by yourkers15 on Jan 6, 2023 18:06:47 GMT
Shooting for the first ignore. Impressive. Stop being a moron, the guy with no rings and 2 3rd teams and 2 all stars isn't making the HOF without rings. Sometimes you need to remember who was in front of him. The best SGs played in his era hands down. So sometimes you can't fully rely on accolades. That only tells part of the story not all. |
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Post by hunt54 on Jan 6, 2023 18:09:10 GMT
Shooting for the first ignore. Impressive. Stop being a moron, the guy with no rings and 2 3rd teams and 2 all stars isn't making the HOF without rings. sorry I thought you were arguing he was a better player as a buck. I think olle was good enough to win a chip at different places as a number 2 or 3 bucks or not. Wizards showed this. My team at the time he was more so number 1. In my biased opinion olle was good enough rings or not. I don't value championships as much for players HOF voting. That being said him winning 3 chips no matter who it was on should cement him as a HOFer. |
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Post by Donny - Bucks on Jan 6, 2023 18:10:42 GMT
Shooting for the first ignore. Impressive. Stop being a moron, the guy with no rings and 2 3rd teams and 2 all stars isn't making the HOF without rings. Sometimes you need to remember who was in front of him. The best SGs played in his era hands down. So sometimes you can't fully rely on accolades. That only tells part of the story not all. If you look through the first half of his career, majority of those years were just empty stats years where he missed the playoffs or barely made the playoffs and lost early… the story is his leaving and ending up in Milwaukee and Washington probably saved his chances at the HOF (and a great career) and not a “what could’ve been” type player. |
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Post by hunt54 on Jan 6, 2023 18:11:56 GMT
Shooting for the first ignore. Impressive. Stop being a moron, the guy with no rings and 2 3rd teams and 2 all stars isn't making the HOF without rings. Not to mention, his stats flourished once he left. Look at the 3-point shooting. As I mentioned before, and I really thought it may detract, I don’t think his case was that solid as a #1 because of the sheer lack of success there. Much better as a #2, sidekick type player. how did his stats flourish? did you read my article ? his 3pt ticked up .9 percent comparing bests but he only averaged 66 games played as a buck. Over a full 82 game sample size those 4 seasons, it would have been about the same or slightly better as a buck. Most of his season high averages were as a bobcat. |
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Post by josephballin11 on Jan 6, 2023 18:12:11 GMT
Sometimes you need to remember who was in front of him. The best SGs played in his era hands down. So sometimes you can't fully rely on accolades. That only tells part of the story not all. If you look through the first half of his career, majority of those years were just empty stats years where he missed the playoffs or barely made the playoffs and lost early… the story is his leaving and ending up in Milwaukee and Washington probably saved his chances at the HOF (and a great career) and not a “what could’ve been” type player. This. |
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Post by hunt54 on Jan 6, 2023 18:13:16 GMT
Sometimes you need to remember who was in front of him. The best SGs played in his era hands down. So sometimes you can't fully rely on accolades. That only tells part of the story not all. If you look through the first half of his career, majority of those years were just empty stats years where he missed the playoffs or barely made the playoffs and lost early… the story is his leaving and ending up in Milwaukee and Washington probably saved his chances at the HOF (and a great career) and not a “what could’ve been” type player. so if we get rid of all the empty stats.... is a 4.5 year career as a buck/wizard enough to be a hof? |
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Post by hunt54 on Jan 6, 2023 18:14:11 GMT
Sometimes you need to remember who was in front of him. The best SGs played in his era hands down. So sometimes you can't fully rely on accolades. That only tells part of the story not all. If you look through the first half of his career, majority of those years were just empty stats years where he missed the playoffs or barely made the playoffs and lost early… the story is his leaving and ending up in Milwaukee and Washington probably saved his chances at the HOF (and a great career) and not a “what could’ve been” type player. well guys everything is an empty stat unless you win a chip! |
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