Post by Rog on Apr 30, 2017 2:36:44 GMT
The 81st nominee of the NBN Hall of Fame, Peter John Ramos, was one of the best traditional centers in league history. He did lack some of the... charm of some of the other bigs, but stasticially there is no argument he is a Hall of Famer. Does the league value traditional big stats or do you need more from other areas for him to be enshrined? Lets take a look.
Career Stats
31.5 MPG, 17.0 PPG, 12.1 RPG, 3.0 BPG, 0.7 SPG, 1.1 APG, 2.2 TOPG on 47.1% from the field and 57.1% from the line
Best Season
76ers(2010) - 19.9 PPG, 16.5 RPG, 3.9 BPG, 1.7 APG, 0.9 SPG, 3.1 TOPG on 48.1% from the field and 46.9% from the line
Career Highs
Points: 46
Rebounds: 30
Assists: 7
Steals: 5
Blocks: 16
Achievements
Championships: 0
Player of the Game: 95
Player of the Week: 0
Player of the Month: 0
Double Doubles: 829
Triple Doubles: 8
Accolades
2005 - All-Star Rookie Game Participant
2007 - All-Star Game Participant
2007 - All-League First Team
2010 - All-Star Game Participant
2010 - All-Defensive Second Team
2011 - All-Star Game Participant
2012 - All-Defensive Second Team
Arguments For Induction
- Ramos played in three All-Star games and was named to two All-Defensive second teams and one All-League First Team.
- Ramos was an absolute outstanding rebounder, one of the best in league history. He averaged 12 rebounds a game but his career numbers are skewed hard by his first and last years. He averaged at least 13 rebounds 8 seasons of his career, including 7 in a row. He averaged over 15, league leading type numbers, twice in his career. His 16.5 rebounds a game in his best season is 2nd all time to Tim Duncan's 16.7. Again, elite, among the greatest all time rbeounder. He finished 4th all time in rebounds.
- He was also a fantastic defender in the post, one of the leagues best rim protectors ever. Again his 3 blocks per game career average doesn't paint the entire picture, he averaged over 3.5 a game for 7 straight season(the 7 straight he averaged over 13 rebounds a game) and 8 overall in his career. He also carried an A- or A defensive rating his entire career, indicating that he was more than just a shot blocker, even if he did finish 2nd All-Time in blocked shots, he was more than that.
- He was actually a really good scorer, wasn't really what you remember him for but career average, with his regressions, of 17 points a game is nothing to sneeze at, with a good field goal percentage as well. 10 seasons of his career, and 10 years out of 11, you could count on at least 19 points a game, with 7 of those seasons being over 20 a game. All while shooting 47% or better in almost all of those seasons as well. His career 47.1% from the field is just something you can ignore.
- Overall Ramos took some time to get started(two years overseas, one year where he wasn't ready to start) and he held on too long(three seasons at the end), but those 12 seasons right in the middle, where you could count on 19 points, 14 rebounds, 3.5 blocks, and a nasty attitude were as good as you can ask for from a 7 foot 3 inch, 290 pound behemoth of a man. He carried a few awards and had some good seasons as well. No title, but this guy wasn't at fault, he was as good of a traditional center as you could ever ask for. Hes a no doubt Hall of Famer.
Arguments Against Induction
- Is he though? The lack of awards for many of the voters will tell a different story.
- Added absolutely nothing in terms of moving the ball. If he caught the ball, he'd either turn it over or take a shot. Sure he was pretty good at making the shots he took, unless you fouled him, but he was also good at giving the ball to the other team. His 0.5 to 1 assist to turnover ratio would go down as about as bad as you can get, and the worst for a Hall of Fame nominee. And 2.2 turnovers once again doesn't tell the whole picture, which if you can help him you can use it against him as well. 7 seasons of his career he averaged over 2.4 turnovers a game, 3 of those years he was over 3 turnovers a game. Thats not a Hall of Fame center type number. Just not.
- Its long been established in FBB leagues that you cannot win with a high volume, poor free throw shooting big. You just can't. And that describes Ramos absolutely perfectly too. He took 6.5 free throws a game for his career, but in his good years he was taking closer to 9 a game, and he made just over 50% of those in his career. Hell he had years where he shot under 50%. He was leaving 3 to 5 points at the line every single night. That is hard to swallow, even with his other fantastic stats. As for his scoring, yeah it was great but he only finished 36th all time in points.
- When you put blinders on for this case, hes a clear cut Hall of Famer, and there isn't anything wrong with looking at it like that. Good scorer, rebounder, and shot blocker. But back it up, look at his lack of awards, his lack of a title, absolute negative when passing the ball, and even worse than negative at the line, and the picture gets a little bit more cloudy doesn't it? I just don't know how you can induct such a flawed player when there are perfectly good ones who just fell short with flaws no where near as big as Ramos. Sure, their skills weren't as high as his were either, but I'd rather have a slightly less skilled guy with flaws who don't hurt your team in the way Ramos's did. Can't say I believe hes a Hall of Famer with the entire picture.
Vote carefully, and remember to throw out arguments regardless of which side you're on. This should be a discussion that eventually gets the league to the proper decision on him. Your vote can also be retracted after it's been cast if you feel like switching to the other side based on the arguments that have been made. To be inducted, a player needs 70% and to be considered in a later class they need 50%. Vote carefully.
***BONUS - Don't forget that everyone who votes gets $25 and the person that makes the best argument or contributes to the discussion the best will be awarded an extra $25***
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