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Post by Rog on Jun 13, 2017 1:41:19 GMT
 The 85th nominee of the NBN Hall of Fame, Andris Biedrins, was one of, if not the best defensive big of all time. His numbers, both averages and career totals, are impressive. But the league has a bad history with defensive first players and his offense was not good. Was he good enough defensively to be a Hall of Famer or does he fall short? Lets take a look.
Career Stats32.3 MPG, 9.0 PPG, 11.8 RPG, 3.3 BPG, 1.8 APG, 0.9 SPG, 1.1 TOPG on 42.2% from the field, 56.5% from the line, and 20% from three Best SeasonWarriors(2018) - 10.6 PPG, 14.1 RPG, 4.2 BPG, 2.0 APG, 0.8 SPG, 1.1 TOPG on 44.6% from the field and 54.7% from the line Career HighsPoints: 29 Rebounds: 27 Assists: 7 Steals: 6 Blocks: 13 AchievementsChampionships: 3 Player of the Game: 67 Player of the Week: 0 Player of the Month: 0 Double Doubles: 529 Triple Doubles: 6 Accolades2004 - All-Star Rookie Game Participant 2004 - All-Rookie Team 2011 - All-Star Game Participant 2018 - All-Defensive Second Team  Arguments For Induction- Biedrins was a winner, winning three titles all as a major contributor in all three of them. He also played on in All-Star Game and was named to one All-Defensive second team. - Starting anywhere else other than his defense would be a complete and total disservice. He was a great shot blocker, averaging 3.3 for his career and consistently being over 3.5 blocks per game in his prime. He finished his career as the All-Time Leader in NBN History for blocked shots, which is in and of itself a huge reason to vote him into the Hall of Fame. He carried an 'A' rating his entire career as well. He also anchored some fantastic defenses in both Brooklyn and Golden State. Fantastic defender that can't be said enough. - Almost as good, Biedrins was also an all-time great rebounder as well. He averaged 11.8 RPG per game for his career. In his prime he averaged over 12.5 rebounds per game 10 seasons in his career. Those are elite numbers. He also finished 1st All-Time in NBN History for rebounds. Once again, like blocked shots that is reason in itself to be inducted into the Hall of Fame. - While he wasn't Brook Lopez, he also wasn't a liability offensively, which is key for defensive big like Biedrins. He only averaged 1.1 turnovers per game. He also averaged 10 points per game for most of his career, while shooting 42.5% or better for most of it as well. He didn't do much, but at least he didn't cost you games there. - Overall, its an impossible argument to make that he doesn't deserve to be in the Hall of Fame. I mean he is the league leader All-Time in two amazing counting stats, like crucial things. He was also a key contributor on three title teams. He was a winner and he was great at a couple of things that you need on your team. What more can you ask for? Arguments Against Induction- Again, like Roy... he just does not have nearly enough awards to his name to be a Hall of Famer. Right? - Seriously though, under 10 points per game and under 43% per game? And an absolute negative on the free throw line? That is not Hall of Fame worthy is it? - And was he a great defender? Okay guys, put your fucking pitchforks down. Let me explain. He has one, ONE defensive award to his name. He never showed A+ defense like some guys around here. He also never showed up on the Best Defenders list, so again was he the great, elite defender we all remember him as? - Overall, there are enough holes in his case to show that he might not be a Hall of Famer, or at least first ballot. His awards are pathetic. His offensive numbers are even worse. And again, there are some holes in his defensive eliteness. Plus, he never was an actual elite rebounder. He build up those counting numbers by being good enough for so long that they added up. Just a tough case to make that he was better than some of the post defenders we've denied in the past. So is he a Hall of Famer? Your vote. Vote carefully, and remember to throw out arguments regardless of which side you're on. This should be a discussion that eventually gets the league to the proper decision on him. Your vote can also be retracted after it's been cast if you feel like switching to the other side based on the arguments that have been made. To be inducted, a player needs 70% and to be considered in a later class they need 50%. Vote carefully. ***BONUS - Don't forget that everyone who votes gets $25 and the person that makes the best argument or contributes to the discussion the best will be awarded an extra $25***  |
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Post by Rog on Jun 13, 2017 1:41:58 GMT
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Post by buckeyeballa10 on Jun 13, 2017 1:56:17 GMT
Wow, his defensive numbers are great, and a good rebounder actually great considering he is 1st all time. My question is, how many of the players below him on the rebounding list played 19 seasons like Biedrins?
Curious on that one, as maybe his longevity in the NBN helped pushed him up that list.
Lack of accolades, and him being an absolute liability on the offensive end of the floor makes this a no from me. Close though, and I think we may see him be eligible for a re-vote if he does not make it.
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Post by Rog on Jun 13, 2017 2:27:44 GMT
Man I don't care if it was longevity or whatever, being the All-Time leader in rebounds and blocks make him an automatic yes for me. I get all the things you said buckeye, but for me his rebounds/blocks all time are enough for me.
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Post by yourkers15 on Jun 13, 2017 2:31:31 GMT
I might be little biased as biedrins is my boy but you can't overlook the fact he played 19 years and did it at a high level. He was key to me winning those championships we were apart of. Also a big who didn't hurt his time as he rarely turned it over. I never understood how he didn't get more defensive teams in his resume especially when my teams played top flight defense. But what does it for me is he owns the records for rebounding and blocks just shows how consistent he was as a player.
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Post by Rog on Jun 13, 2017 2:35:17 GMT
I might be little biased as biedrins is my boy but you can't overlook the fact he played 19 years and did it at a high level. He was key to me winning those championships we were apart of. Also a big who didn't hurt his time as he rarely turned it over. I never understood how he didn't get more defensive teams in his resume especially when my teams played top flight defense. But what does it for me is he owns the records for rebounding and blocks just shows how consistent he was as a player. He was never an absolutely ELITE shot blocker. Like 3.8+ except one year. Plus his total stocks/rebounds weren't elite as a total package, which is what DPOTY was is based on. He was consistently great, but you could probably look each season and see someone who was insane numbers wise and a lot of those guys never repeated that while Biedrins was consistently great, if just not quite elite. Still a Hall of Famer, and its a shame how FBB awards work but thats what it is. |
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Post by buckeyeballa10 on Jun 13, 2017 2:57:36 GMT
Man I don't care if it was longevity or whatever, being the All-Time leader in rebounds and blocks make him an automatic yes for me. I get all the things you said buckeye, but for me his rebounds/blocks all time are enough for me. Well all I was saying is that if the guys ranked #2 to #5 or whatever on the rebounding list, have only played an average of ~12 seasons, compared to his 19 years, thats a stark contrast and is the reason he stands at #1. But yeah your right, him being #1 in rebounds and tops (not sure if he is #1 or what) is damn impressive. Agree there. On the flip side, him playing 19 seasons alone is damn impressive when you think about it. Dude must have a body made of iron |
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Post by Rog on Jun 13, 2017 3:04:18 GMT
Man I don't care if it was longevity or whatever, being the All-Time leader in rebounds and blocks make him an automatic yes for me. I get all the things you said buckeye, but for me his rebounds/blocks all time are enough for me. Well all I was saying is that if the guys ranked #2 to #5 or whatever on the rebounding list, have only played an average of ~12 seasons, compared to his 19 years, thats a stark contrast and is the reason he stands at #1. But yeah your right, him being #1 in rebounds and tops (not sure if he is #1 or what) is damn impressive. Agree there. On the flip side, him playing 19 seasons alone is damn impressive when you think about it. Dude must have a body made of iron No I absolutely get it and understand your reasoning. My thing is... He played 19 seasons of high quality basketball. Yes, that's a lot compared to some guys but still he still had to be good to end up on top, it's not like we're talking about a marginal starter who jsut happened to end up number 12 on a list because he averaged 9 boards for 20 seasons. We're talking about a 12+ rebound, 3+ block guy for nearly 2 decades. That's crazy impressive and HOF worthy to me. |
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Post by buckeyeballa10 on Jun 13, 2017 3:08:12 GMT
Well all I was saying is that if the guys ranked #2 to #5 or whatever on the rebounding list, have only played an average of ~12 seasons, compared to his 19 years, thats a stark contrast and is the reason he stands at #1. But yeah your right, him being #1 in rebounds and tops (not sure if he is #1 or what) is damn impressive. Agree there. On the flip side, him playing 19 seasons alone is damn impressive when you think about it. Dude must have a body made of iron No I absolutely get it and understand your reasoning. My thing is... He played 19 seasons of high quality basketball. Yes, that's a lot compared to some guys but still he still had to be good to end up on top, it's not like we're talking about a marginal starter who jsut happened to end up number 12 on a list because he averaged 9 boards for 20 seasons. We're talking about a 12+ rebound, 3+ block guy for nearly 2 decades. That's crazy impressive and HOF worthy to me. Yep I agree. The second paragraph in my last reply pointed to that. I'm actually leaning on changing my vote. Partially due to his longevity! Idk what I'm thinking! I'm a fuckin mess right now!! |
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Post by A. Silver on Jun 13, 2017 3:52:27 GMT
Wow, his defensive numbers are great, and a good rebounder actually great considering he is 1st all time. My question is, how many of the players below him on the rebounding list played 19 seasons like Biedrins? Curious on that one, as maybe his longevity in the NBN helped pushed him up that list. Lack of accolades, and him being an absolute liability on the offensive end of the floor makes this a no from me. Close though, and I think we may see him be eligible for a re-vote if he does not make it. That's kind of like saying that Emmitt Smith isn't a Hall of Famer despite owning the record for rushing yards and rushing TDs because he played longer than the guys behind him. Easy yes for me on Bierdins. All time leader in three categories (Games, Rebounds, and Blocks) is all that I need from a HOF candidate, but he also didn't shoot much and had low turnovers, which is basically the perfect big man in this league. |
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Post by buckeyeballa10 on Jun 13, 2017 3:54:52 GMT
Wow, his defensive numbers are great, and a good rebounder actually great considering he is 1st all time. My question is, how many of the players below him on the rebounding list played 19 seasons like Biedrins? Curious on that one, as maybe his longevity in the NBN helped pushed him up that list. Lack of accolades, and him being an absolute liability on the offensive end of the floor makes this a no from me. Close though, and I think we may see him be eligible for a re-vote if he does not make it. That's kind of like saying that Emmitt Smith isn't a Hall of Famer despite owning the record for rushing yards and rushing TDs because he played longer than the guys behind him. Easy yes for me on Bierdins. All time leader in three categories (Games, Rebounds, and Blocks) is all that I need from a HOF candidate, but he also didn't shoot much and had low turnovers, which is basically the perfect big man in this league. lol true. Barry sanders woulda crushed that shit! |
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Post by buckeyeballa10 on Jun 13, 2017 4:05:01 GMT
Should've waited to hear out some responses.
I actually think my point abt his longevity is actually the main reason I'm changing my vote. The fact that he didn't have a huge "dip" in production is his later years, and stayed consistent is actually what one me over.
Weird too in the retirement post I actually kinda declared him a HOFer then too lol.
Great career Andris, HOFer in my book.
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Post by Charles on Jun 13, 2017 12:41:29 GMT
I voted yes because he's the all time rebounder, being able to control the glass like that for so many years and also pick up so many blocks is amazing. He won an all defensive team award too with the Warriors, so despite playing a season with them less then the Nets I still voted for HOF-Warriors. He had that one insane season where he grabbed 14 rpg and had over 4 bog. Those are HOF numbers for sure.
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Post by vanimmer on Jun 13, 2017 15:03:56 GMT
hmmmm
tough one
i was gonna vote no cause of the lack of points and prizes but reading the comments of fellow gm's i must agree tis is the type of big that wins ships.
i' feel it is always tougher for a big to enter
so i 'll vote a yes
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Post by lynchcats on Jun 14, 2017 7:25:12 GMT
I'm going to vote yes on Biedrins even without the accolades. I kept weighing accolades vs. career numbers, and the name that kept popping in my head as a comparison is NBA Hall of Famer Dikembe Mutombo. He wasn't a real scoring threat after his rookie season, and Mutombo might have had more accolades, but Biedrins' numbers compare to Mutombo in the NBA. (Yes, I like comparisons if you couldn't tell.)
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