|
|
Post by thefirstcedi on Dec 7, 2019 15:09:25 GMT
Shot under 45% from the field and wasn't an above average shot blocker until the end of his career. Really lowering the standards of a Hall of Fame letting him in.
|
|
|
|
Post by Donny - Bucks on Dec 7, 2019 20:44:14 GMT
Shot under 45% from the field and wasn't an above average shot blocker until the end of his career. Really lowering the standards of a Hall of Fame letting him in. [/br] Achievements Championships: 1 Player of the Game: 174 Player of the Week: 1 Player of the Month: 0 Double Doubles: 986 Triple Doubles: 2 Career Leaderboard Rankings Games - 20th (1,440) Points - 64 (26,208) Rebounds - 4 (17,856) Blocks - 56 (2,736) FG - 91 (20,651) FT - 10 (8,931) DD - 5 (986) I don’t see how it’s “lowering the standards” considering he was a 3 stock per game player his entire career and is on the leaderboard of every single ranking that matters. Including being one of the best rebounders of all time. |
|
|
|
Post by The Slough on Dec 7, 2019 20:58:35 GMT
Voted No, great player for some time, but even his best years he wasn't a top forward to me. If he had more defense I would lean towards yes.
|
|
|
|
Post by Donny - Bucks on Dec 7, 2019 21:00:41 GMT
Voted No, great player for some time, but even his best years he wasn't a top forward to me. If he had more defense I would lean towards yes. He had 100 post D for the entirety of his prime. Was one of the best defenders in the league for his entire career. Lol. |
|
|
|
Post by The Slough on Dec 7, 2019 21:03:48 GMT
Voted No, great player for some time, but even his best years he wasn't a top forward to me. If he had more defense I would lean towards yes. He had 100 post D for the entirety of his prime. Was one of the best defenders in the league for his entire career. Lol. Well nobody would know that looking at stats, good point though |
|
|
|
Post by Donny - Bucks on Dec 7, 2019 21:04:33 GMT
He had 100 post D for the entirety of his prime. Was one of the best defenders in the league for his entire career. Lol. Well nobody would know that looking at stats, good point though Three stocks per game is pretty solid. Y’all act like he really didn’t ever get any blocks. There’s more to a defender than blocks or steals though. |
|
|
|
Post by The Slough on Dec 7, 2019 21:07:07 GMT
I am just saying, its a flaw in the voting, I agree with you, not a lot of metrics to show def % with post D, but for what we have, I said no. If you show me some stats of how great he was shutting down opposing players with his Post D, by all means, I will swing my vote to yes.
|
|
|
|
Post by Donny - Bucks on Dec 7, 2019 21:35:21 GMT
I am just saying, its a flaw in the voting, I agree with you, not a lot of metrics to show def % with post D, but for what we have, I said no. If you show me some stats of how great he was shutting down opposing players with his Post D, by all means, I will swing my vote to yes. I mean, if you’re just voting on averages and not overall body of work that kind of muddies the Hall of Fame, no? His longevity >. Shut down KAT in the Finals series that I won. Also shut down Hartenstein and Wright in that same playoff. The reason I held onto him so long was the fact that he was a great post defender. Was consistently on these lists too: nothinbutnetleague.proboards.com/thread/14390/2034-2035-2036-best-defenders |
|
|
|
Post by thefirstcedi on Dec 7, 2019 22:17:21 GMT
Shot under 45% from the field and wasn't an above average shot blocker until the end of his career. Really lowering the standards of a Hall of Fame letting him in. Those stats mean nothing to me. He was never a top 10 big and only had some awards because you hurt your teams chances at winning by letting him shoot so much. If you're going to be a scoring big you have to be efficient and under 45% is dime a dozen. Rebounding is nice but how many A rebound bigs are in this league? Most players of his caliber would have been benched so they weren't able to pad stats like him. |
|
|
|
Post by thefirstcedi on Dec 7, 2019 22:25:40 GMT
Chuck Share was better nearly every season and has 0 yes hue.
|
|
|
|
Post by Donny - Bucks on Dec 7, 2019 22:27:34 GMT
Achievements Championships: 1 Player of the Game: 174 Player of the Week: 1 Player of the Month: 0 Double Doubles: 986 Triple Doubles: 2 Career Leaderboard Rankings Games - 20th (1,440) Points - 64 (26,208) Rebounds - 4 (17,856) Blocks - 56 (2,736) FG - 91 (20,651) FT - 10 (8,931) DD - 5 (986) I don’t see how it’s “lowering the standards” considering he was a 3 stock per game player his entire career and is on the leaderboard of every single ranking that matters. Including being one of the best rebounders of all time. Those stats mean nothing to me. He was never a top 10 big and only had some awards because you hurt your teams chances at winning by letting him shoot so much. If you're going to be a scoring big you have to be efficient and under 45% is dime a dozen. Rebounding is nice but how many A rebound bigs are in this league? Most players of his caliber would have been benched so they weren't able to pad stats like him.[/quote][/quote] When I had him, his shooting %s as a starter: .441 / .811 .459 / .811 .468 / .779 .463 / .839 .460 / .852 .456 / .812 .452 / .840 .453 / .841 I'm not sure what you're getting at here with him "not being a top 10 big". If he didn't play with a top 5 player all-time in Azirin, he would've had even better numbers, but to say a guy who put up 24/13 and 23/14 and over 3 stocks per game isn't a top 10 big is foolish. Vern was dominant for the majority of his career, not to mention, didn't seem like the .432 FG% that Levon Tostig put up (you voted yes) or saying that Chuck Share was "way better than Vern" his whole career mattered much to you. Share put up 15.5/12.9/3.5 stocks on .433/.736 shooting over his career. Vern put up 18.2/12.4/2.9 stocks on .447/.854 shooting over his career. You're grasping at straws and I'm not sure why. Since I've been in the NBN, I don't think we've had anyone with 25,000 points, 2,500 blocks, 15,000 rebounds, and almost 1,000 double doubles get any no votes, let alone not get into the HoF. Kinda blows my mind that he's not an auto-yes considering Neon's the first big man to get in the Hall of Fame in five years of retirings. Stats only speak part of the story. Vern was never my #1 scoring option, swapping between 2/3, yet he put up fantastic numbers and was one of the best defenders in the league for many years. |
|
|
|
Post by Donny - Bucks on Dec 7, 2019 22:30:07 GMT
Chuck Share was better nearly every season and has 0 yes hue. Share had one season where he shot over 45%. Vern had nine. You can't have it both ways here! You're arguing percentages, and then you say Share was better. If you like just stocks, Share's your guy. If you like legitimate post defense and stocks, Vern>>>> |
|
|
|
Post by thefirstcedi on Dec 7, 2019 22:30:45 GMT
Vern was never a scoring option caliber player. This is silly, you tried to trade him for years and nobody wanted him.
|
|
|
|
Post by thefirstcedi on Dec 7, 2019 22:31:13 GMT
Chuck Share was better nearly every season and has 0 yes hue. Share had one season where he shot over 45%. Vern had nine. You can't have it both ways here! You're arguing percentages, and then you say Share was better. If you like just stocks, Share's your guy. If you like legitimate post defense and stocks, Vern>>>> Ya Share knew his role better and didn't try to be something he's not. |
|
|
|
Post by Donny - Bucks on Dec 7, 2019 22:33:15 GMT
Vern was never a scoring option caliber player. This is silly, you tried to trade him for years and nobody wanted him. I tried to trade him because I wanted to re-build but nobody would offer the proper deals. I was still making the playoffs consistently and making runs in those playoff series, so there was no reason to let him go cheap. I tried trading Arizin for many years too, same with Sharman, etc. |
|
*
*