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Post by Donny - Bucks on Jun 14, 2022 19:33:49 GMT
Depends on the potential. If you can get a guy into the mid 80s I disagree. That ensures the best potential for 2-3 years of good TCs. If he's 18 or 19, I'd only want them above the 73 threshold so they could boom---It's what I did with Ballin but he never Pot boomed s/o to fat fr
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Post by HF on Jun 14, 2022 21:22:23 GMT
This actually makes it like a real draft. I feel we should get to see the pre draft without having to pay but now it's a crap shoot. Which the draft really is. I don't scout so I am ok with the ordeal and now you really have to think this over instead of comparing numbers to make sure you get it right. Except the combine is available to all 30 teams
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Post by yourkers15 on Jun 14, 2022 21:35:57 GMT
This actually makes it like a real draft. I feel we should get to see the pre draft without having to pay but now it's a crap shoot. Which the draft really is. I don't scout so I am ok with the ordeal and now you really have to think this over instead of comparing numbers to make sure you get it right. Except the combine is available to all 30 teams Which is why I said we should be able to see the pre-draft sim
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Post by carlos on Jun 14, 2022 21:52:01 GMT
This actually makes it like a real draft. I feel we should get to see the pre draft without having to pay but now it's a crap shoot. Which the draft really is. I don't scout so I am ok with the ordeal and now you really have to think this over instead of comparing numbers to make sure you get it right. Except the combine is available to all 30 teams Yeah if we're removing ratings scouts, I think it should just be pre-draft camps for everyone and eliminate scouting altogether. Takes away the need to have someone available to send scouts and achieves the same thing this does of making the draft more random
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Post by Donny - Bucks on Jun 14, 2022 22:44:48 GMT
This actually makes it like a real draft. I feel we should get to see the pre draft without having to pay but now it's a crap shoot. Which the draft really is. I don't scout so I am ok with the ordeal and now you really have to think this over instead of comparing numbers to make sure you get it right. I think you could argue that it makes it less like a real draft: - Teams have their allotted pick slots and work out specific players based on who they think will be available at said slot/other slots they may be interested in drafting at. - These workouts are quite literally the same as "sending scouts", getting a better understanding of strengths and weaknesses during the draft process. - Without these workouts/seeing players in action, they'd be relying on recorded video and word-of-mouth to make an informed decision. The "word-of-mouth" part is like Rog's articles, but with the current system, the "video" we're seeing is just a full-season sim and some numbers that may or may not have a correlation towards a player's actual skill level. The idea of "really having to think this over" rather than "comparing numbers" is actually LESS prevalent now than before because now, letter grades and potential grades are dumbed down to being the most important part of the process especially considering pre-drafts are not a very good way of figuring out who's good and bad because players play out of position quite often and don't give you the most accurate representation of their skillset. Also, the draft process is so heavily dependent on having as much information as you possibly can on as many different players as you want. Teams that have more scouts and do more work pertaining to the draft process should theoretically do better, but that's entirely up to a team to what they see fit with their staff. Getting rid of the ability to attain information dumbs the process down and makes it more of a crap shoot because you have quite literally zero idea about the important part of a player's build. So, either Rog makes players less flawed (which dumbs down the drafting process because there are less issues with players) or more people get screwed because they have no idea if their PG of the future has 25 strength. I definitely understand the issues with the prior system in terms of forcing Silver to be available to send scouts, but it seems like jumping from full scouting to no scouting is a really serious shift from one end of the spectrum to the other... not to mention, like I said, I would be very hard pressed to pick anyone without A potential in the first 10-15 picks at this point which is a very sharp contrast to prior years.
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Post by Retired on Jun 14, 2022 22:48:13 GMT
Nothing to like here
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Post by hunt54 on Jun 14, 2022 22:49:11 GMT
This actually makes it like a real draft. I feel we should get to see the pre draft without having to pay but now it's a crap shoot. Which the draft really is. I don't scout so I am ok with the ordeal and now you really have to think this over instead of comparing numbers to make sure you get it right. I think you could argue that it makes it less like a real draft: - Teams have their allotted pick slots and work out specific players based on who they think will be available at said slot/other slots they may be interested in drafting at. - These workouts are quite literally the same as "sending scouts", getting a better understanding of strengths and weaknesses during the draft process. - Without these workouts/seeing players in action, they'd be relying on recorded video and word-of-mouth to make an informed decision. The "word-of-mouth" part is like Rog's articles, but with the current system, the "video" we're seeing is just a full-season sim and some numbers that may or may not have a correlation towards a player's actual skill level. The idea of "really having to think this over" rather than "comparing numbers" is actually LESS prevalent now than before because now, letter grades and potential grades are dumbed down to being the most important part of the process especially considering pre-drafts are not a very good way of figuring out who's good and bad because players play out of position quite often and don't give you the most accurate representation of their skillset. Also, the draft process is so heavily dependent on having as much information as you possibly can on as many different players as you want. Teams that have more scouts and do more work pertaining to the draft process should theoretically do better, but that's entirely up to a team to what they see fit with their staff. Getting rid of the ability to attain information dumbs the process down and makes it more of a crap shoot because you have quite literally zero idea about the important part of a player's build. So, either Rog makes players less flawed (which dumbs down the drafting process because there are less issues with players) or more people get screwed because they have no idea if their PG of the future has 25 strength. I definitely understand the issues with the prior system in terms of forcing Silver to be available to send scouts, but it seems like jumping from full scouting to no scouting is a really serious shift from one end of the spectrum to the other... not to mention, like I said, I would be very hard pressed to pick anyone without A potential in the first 10-15 picks at this point which is a very sharp contrast to prior years. as long as there is at least a lottery fully of A pot I think its fine. But only time will tell.
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Post by Donny - Bucks on Jun 14, 2022 22:49:16 GMT
Also... now it's REALLY expensive to scout. Think this pushes more people out of the draft process in general and makes non-lotto firsts worth much less because the intrigue of finding a diamond in the rough potential wise is gone.
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Post by A. Silver on Jun 14, 2022 22:51:48 GMT
The biggest take away from this thread is that Donny really doesn't understand how this game works at all.
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Post by Donny - Bucks on Jun 14, 2022 22:56:56 GMT
I think you could argue that it makes it less like a real draft: - Teams have their allotted pick slots and work out specific players based on who they think will be available at said slot/other slots they may be interested in drafting at. - These workouts are quite literally the same as "sending scouts", getting a better understanding of strengths and weaknesses during the draft process. - Without these workouts/seeing players in action, they'd be relying on recorded video and word-of-mouth to make an informed decision. The "word-of-mouth" part is like Rog's articles, but with the current system, the "video" we're seeing is just a full-season sim and some numbers that may or may not have a correlation towards a player's actual skill level. The idea of "really having to think this over" rather than "comparing numbers" is actually LESS prevalent now than before because now, letter grades and potential grades are dumbed down to being the most important part of the process especially considering pre-drafts are not a very good way of figuring out who's good and bad because players play out of position quite often and don't give you the most accurate representation of their skillset. Also, the draft process is so heavily dependent on having as much information as you possibly can on as many different players as you want. Teams that have more scouts and do more work pertaining to the draft process should theoretically do better, but that's entirely up to a team to what they see fit with their staff. Getting rid of the ability to attain information dumbs the process down and makes it more of a crap shoot because you have quite literally zero idea about the important part of a player's build. So, either Rog makes players less flawed (which dumbs down the drafting process because there are less issues with players) or more people get screwed because they have no idea if their PG of the future has 25 strength. I definitely understand the issues with the prior system in terms of forcing Silver to be available to send scouts, but it seems like jumping from full scouting to no scouting is a really serious shift from one end of the spectrum to the other... not to mention, like I said, I would be very hard pressed to pick anyone without A potential in the first 10-15 picks at this point which is a very sharp contrast to prior years. as long as there is at least a lottery fully of A pot I think its fine. But only time will tell. Will confirm that there is not a full lottery worth of A potential guys that I'd be fired up to draft with a lottery pick. 19 guys with A potential, including: Danny Manning PF 6'10'' 100 19 B C C C+ C A Matas Buzelis. PF 6'9'' 210 22 C B- B+ C+ C A Dave Hoppen C 6'11'' 235 21 C+ C- C- C+ B A Saulius Stombergas*** SF 6'8'' 220 19 C+ B- C+ C+ C- A Vincent "The Fiddler" Askew SG 6'6'' 210 21 C+ C+ C+ C+ C A Bo Jackson PG 6'1'' 227 20 B- C C+ B- C A Greg Drelling C 7'1'' 250 21 C+ C- D+ C+ C+ A Mark Jackson PG 6'1'' 180 20 C+ C+ B+ C+ D+ A Otar Korkia** C 6'5'' 215 19 B- C- B- C+ B- A Brad Sellers. PF 7'0'' 210 21 C+ C+ D C C+ A Ron "Hollywood" Harper. SG 6'6'' 185 20 B- C+ C+ B- C A Jim Everrett. SG 6'5'' 212 21 C+ C B- B- C A Johnny "Pooh" Dawkins PG 6'2'' 165 21 C+ C+ B C+ D+ A Walter "Truth" Berry. PF 6'8'' 215 22 B- C- C- C+ C+ A Of these guys, only Buzelis/Hoppen/Bo Jackson/Drelling/Everrett/Dawkins/Berry made it on the Pre-Draft All-League team. So, the information available to you does not tell you why a guy like Ron Harper couldn't find his way onto the All-League team over a guy like Everrett: Ron "Hollywood" Harper. SG 6'6'' 185 20 B- C+ C+ B- C A Jim Everrett. SG 6'5'' 212 21 C+ C B- B- C A
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Post by Donny - Bucks on Jun 14, 2022 22:59:13 GMT
The biggest take away from this thread is that Donny really doesn't understand how this game works at all. Unfortunately I am not the only person who feels this way. If I was the only person who hated the changes because it dumbs down the process considerably, I wouldn't voice my concerns. I think it's fair to have discourse like this on a massive change especially given the fact that there are quite a few GM's who enjoy the draft and development part more than the winning games part.
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Post by A. Silver on Jun 14, 2022 23:02:43 GMT
The biggest take away from this thread is that Donny really doesn't understand how this game works at all. Unfortunately I am not the only person who feels this way. If I was the only person who hated the changes because it dumbs down the process considerably, I wouldn't voice my concerns. I think it's fair to have discourse like this on a massive change especially given the fact that there are quite a few GM's who enjoy the draft and development part more than the winning games part. It doesn't dumb down the process at all, not having access to all the pre draft camp stats and raw ratings makes it considerably more challenging - you just don't understand the game enough to realized that and you're sad you can't brute force your way through a draft with a dozen scouts showing you exactly who to pick when other people had to pass them over because they couldn't afford as much scouting.
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Post by A. Silver on Jun 14, 2022 23:03:29 GMT
This actually makes it like a real draft. I feel we should get to see the pre draft without having to pay but now it's a crap shoot. Which the draft really is. I don't scout so I am ok with the ordeal and now you really have to think this over instead of comparing numbers to make sure you get it right. Except the combine is available to all 30 teams Except every box score is available to every team.
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Post by frosty on Jun 14, 2022 23:08:01 GMT
Im willing to give the new system a go. If all my picks bust then I propose we go back
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Post by Donny - Bucks on Jun 14, 2022 23:08:20 GMT
Unfortunately I am not the only person who feels this way. If I was the only person who hated the changes because it dumbs down the process considerably, I wouldn't voice my concerns. I think it's fair to have discourse like this on a massive change especially given the fact that there are quite a few GM's who enjoy the draft and development part more than the winning games part. It doesn't dumb down the process at all, not having access to all the pre draft camp stats and raw ratings makes it considerably more challenging - you just don't understand the game enough to realized that and you're sad you can't brute force your way through a draft with a dozen scouts showing you exactly who to pick when other people had to pass them over because they couldn't afford as much scouting. "brute force your way through a draft with a dozen scouts" Lever draft scouts PM: "Fat Lever Mattieu Gauzin Tom Chambers Lee Chong-Hui Scouts + Potential" Radja draft scouts: "Dino Radja Larry Nance Scouts + Potential" Is this brute forcing? I spend a vast majority of my scouting money on non-lotto picks that went non-lotto for a reason, trying to see if I can have a fun project prospect. I wonder how many other people brute force their lottery picks like this!
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